Anyway
Started by Reg Perrin, 14th December 2019 14:18 in Serious Discussion

  1. #11 | 2140204
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    BobBobson
    It is a bit of pity. Corbyn was unique, not in that he was an actual genuine socialist, but that he was genuinely ethical and his intentions were good........but politics is no place for the meek.
    As regards this. From day one, and I'm confident my posting record will bear it out, (when Ponsonby checks) I've maintained that Corbyn's problem was presentation and delivery.

  2. #12 | 2140205
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    Reg Perrin
    It's hard to believe but the campaign organiser was telling us tonight that within Newcastle North, the Gosforth area where we live, middle class to rich was 75% labour whilst previous strongholds had gone over to the Tories......actually it's not hard to believe at all. We need, and will, move to the middle. That won't be very hard at all given how Right wing this Tory government is going to be.
    You mean you are going to become the 'Liberal Party'?

    Think the LibDems already have your name, and are the remnants of the actual Liberal Party that Labour are seeking to become or indeed did become, before Corbyn so rudely interrupted. Not done terribly well the LibDems in recent decades have they? The thing with Labour, is that they always had a dependable mass of Gammons who would always vote Labour, like their fathers before them. Dispense with that mass of the electorate, and Labour will become just like the LibDems....fucking irrelevant.
    Scrot is a poof!
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  3. #13 | 2140209
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    Reg Perrin
    As regards this. From day one, and I'm confident my posting record will bear it out, (when Ponsonby checks) I've maintained that Corbyn's problem was presentation and delivery.
    His problem is, that he is a fucking pussy.

    He should have crushed the heads of snakes like Tom Watson and Hillary Benn right from the off. Not made them members of his shadow cabinet.

    If Corbyn was allowed to be Corbyn, adhering to the values and policies that he has always stood for, especially with regard to his Eurosceptism*, then Labour may not have won the election, but they wouldn't have got utterly smashed. His problem wasn't one of presentation and delivery. His problem was one of being a fucking pussy and failing to give the party the purge of Red Tories that it needed.

    *Granted, the majority of Momentum are pro Remain, but the Brexit ref was conducted under a Tory watch, and I suspect that all but the most rabid of lefty wanker would accept their leader simply honouring a democratic outcome.

    Far better to have a Corbyn Brexit than a BoJo Brexit.....(as if BoJo could even give a hoot either way....but you know what I mean).
    Scrot is a poof!

  4. #14 | 2140210
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    BobBobson
    You mean you are going to become the 'Liberal Party'?

    Think the LibDems already have your name, and are the remnants of the actual Liberal Party that Labour are seeking to become or indeed did become, before Corbyn so rudely interrupted. Not done terribly well the LibDems in recent decades have they? The thing with Labour, is that they always had a dependable mass of Gammons who would always vote Labour, like their fathers before them. Dispense with that mass of the electorate, and Labour will become just like the LibDems....fucking irrelevant.
    The mistake that many people make IMO is that there is a linear progression from the Left to the Right with the Lib Dems in the middle. I don't see that. Liberal means Liberal....I take that as having a large degree, at the very least of Laissez faire. That's the major distinction for me. In reality that value makes true liberals duplicitous twats.

  5. #15 | 2140212
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    Reg Perrin
    The mistake that many people make IMO is that there is a linear progression from the Left to the Right with the Lib Dems in the middle. I don't see that. Liberal means Liberal....I take that as having a large degree, at the very least of Laissez faire. That's the major distinction for me. In reality that value makes true liberals duplicitous twats.
    Left/Right, Socialist/Capitalist are dying paradigms.

    Neoliberalism has established itself as an unshakeable axiom for now, it is a question of which flavour of Neoliberalism you prefer, with much of the distinction between the two being based around identity politics.
    Scrot is a poof!

  6. #16 | 2140214
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    BobBobson
    Left/Right, Socialist/Capitalist are dying paradigms.

    Neoliberalism has established itself as an unshakeable axiom for now, it is a question of which flavour of Neoliberalism you prefer, with much of the distinction between the two being based around identity politics.
    I see the current situation as a spasm, with too many factors at play to come to any traditional conclusion. These periods usually end in a World War. I think the traditional values still exist. The poor exist and are voiceless, the super rich exist and are untouchable, the bourgeoisie comprises the majority of the population in the richest countries and are restless and arguing amongst themselves. It'll all shake down in a bit.

  7. #17 | 2140224
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    Reg Perrin
    I see the current situation as a spasm, with too many factors at play to come to any traditional conclusion. These periods usually end in a World War. I think the traditional values still exist. The poor exist and are voiceless, the super rich exist and are untouchable, the bourgeoisie comprises the majority of the population in the richest countries and are restless and arguing amongst themselves. It'll all shake down in a bit.
    Neo-Liberalism/Globalism is leading inevitably towards Neo-Feudalism of some description. Excess human population with exponentially increasing technology leading to ever increasing automation of production. The majority of humanity are going to find themselves to be 'irrelevant' to the new system, but totally dependent on it.

    It is a question of exactly how this NeoFeudalist system takes shape and who ends up controlling the pie. The 20th century was undoubtedly the American century, but their power is being challenged as is their currency being challenged as the de facto global reserve, which is precisely the sort of thing that might lead to a huge military conflict. Even within the US itself, their seems to be a real arm wrestle going on between the power brokers behind the scenes. It is obvious that the lionshare of the US establishment do not like Trump, but he is certainly being backed by someone, somewhere, otherwise he wouldn't be sitting where he is.

    I would classify Brexitism and Trumpism under the same broad political banner. Perhaps Brexit is simply a symptom of this wrangling for power between the 'ruling houses' of the West? Perhaps it really is a war of wills between 'patriotic Capitalism' and 'globalist Capitalism'?

    Whatever the real reasons for Brexit are, it certainly seems like a spanner in the works to me, and therefore I support it.
    Scrot is a poof!

  8. #18 | 2140227
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    BobBobson
    Neo-Liberalism/Globalism is leading inevitably towards Neo-Feudalism of some description. Excess human population with exponentially increasing technology leading to ever increasing automation of production. The majority of humanity are going to find themselves to be 'irrelevant' to the new system, but totally dependent on it.

    It is a question of exactly how this NeoFeudalist system takes shape and who ends up controlling the pie. The 20th century was undoubtedly the American century, but their power is being challenged as is their currency being challenged as the de facto global reserve, which is precisely the sort of thing that might lead to a huge military conflict. Even within the US itself, their seems to be a real arm wrestle going on between the power brokers behind the scenes. It is obvious that the lionshare of the US establishment do not like Trump, but he is certainly being backed by someone, somewhere, otherwise he wouldn't be sitting where he is.

    I would classify Brexitism and Trumpism under the same broad political banner. Perhaps Brexit is simply a symptom of this wrangling for power between the 'ruling houses' of the West? Perhaps it really is a war of wills between 'patriotic Capitalism' and 'globalist Capitalism'?

    Whatever the real reasons for Brexit are, it certainly seems like a spanner in the works to me, and therefore I support it.
    In other words, you have a theory but don't know what the fuck to do. I choose activism of the traditional kind. Moderate left wing ideology. What are you going to do?

  9. #19 | 2140231
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    Reg Perrin
    In other words, you have a theory but don't know what the fuck to do. I choose activism of the traditional kind. Moderate left wing ideology. What are you going to do?
    Yes and you think the people you purportedly work for are thick and don't know what's good for them. You'd like a Communist system in which people have the vote but they have to vote for who they're told.
    Don't blame me, I voted Labour!

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  10. #20 | 2140234
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    Plutonium
    Yes and you think the people you purportedly work for are thick and don't know what's good for them. You'd like a Communist system in which people have the vote but they have to vote for who they're told.
    Well, I'm a member of the electorate and I consider you to be a stupid twat of the highest order. Do you consider me stupid or intelligent for holding that opinion? Or, at the very least, do you respect the idea.

 


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