Joe McDonnel
Started by wishingwell, 15th November 2019 17:03 in Music & Video

  1. #11 | 2136117
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    St Lucia

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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    Fork Me
    Yes, but then you see everything in black and white, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
    No, I don't. I recognise that there is a blurred line between "freedom fighters" and terrorists.

    A huge amount of people died indescriminately in British cities when Nazis dropped bombs, and a lot of innocent people died indiscriminately in German cities when we dropped bombs. Indeed, in Dresden we dropped bombs that were actually designed to kill as many innocent civilians as possible.
    Yes, and I've already said that wasn't justified.

    I got to thinking about this more since living in Cyprus. EOKA were the group that fought for Cypriot independence. They targeted the British military and their families, Cypriots working for the British military, the British in general and even Cypriots with opposing views to theirs. EOKA were considered by the British government to be terrorists, they're viewed by most Cypriots as heroic freedom fighters. How do you decide? Whilst I agree with you about the cimparison between WW2 and the IRA being invalid, what about between EOKA and the IRA?
    I don't know enough about EOKA to judge. But if as you say they targeted ordinary Cypriots who didn't happen to agree with them, then how can you justify that? I am simply pointing out the humbug in the song in the OP. Bobby Sands and the other hunger strikers were terrorists, they weren't political prisoners. Nobody in NI is imprisoned for advocating the reunion of Ireland; two political parties, Sinn Fein and the SDLP, openly advocate this and the latter at least believes it should be brought about via the ballot box, not bombs and bullets.
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  2. #12 | 2136140
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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    Plutonium
    I don't know enough about EOKA to judge. But if as you say they targeted ordinary Cypriots who didn't happen to agree with them, then how can you justify that?
    Me? I wouldn't even try to. However, many people are blind to the actions of those they agree with the principles of, or even those they perceive as being on "their side" while waxing lyrical about the abuses of the other side. Many such people will call you a "traitor" if you even suggest that their side ever did anything wrong.

    I am simply pointing out the humbug in the song in the OP. Bobby Sands and the other hunger strikers were terrorists, they weren't political prisoners. Nobody in NI is imprisoned for advocating the reunion of Ireland; two political parties, Sinn Fein and the SDLP, openly advocate this and the latter at least believes it should be brought about via the ballot box, not bombs and bullets.
    Actually, the modern Sinn Fein believes that as well. They've kept a ceasefire now since 1997, over 20 years.
    Please note that any abuse in this post is both intentional and deserved.

    Anyone that feels the need to further point out that it contains abuse is clearly a total fucking moron who's also insulting YOUR intelligence by pointing out the bleeding obvious as if you were too fucking dumb to notice it.

    This has been a public service announcement by Fork Me. Have a nice fucking day.

  3. #13 | 2136250
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    St Lucia

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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    Fork Me
    Me? I wouldn't even try to. However, many people are blind to the actions of those they agree with the principles of, or even those they perceive as being on "their side" while waxing lyrical about the abuses of the other side. Many such people will call you a "traitor" if you even suggest that their side ever did anything wrong.



    Actually, the modern Sinn Fein believes that as well. They've kept a ceasefire now since 1997, over 20 years.
    What I do say is this. The term "traitor" is banded around too often these days. For example, anyone who voted Remain in the EU referendum is branded a "traitor" by some. This worries me, because if anyone who disagrees with a particular POV is a "traitor" then democracy dies. (Lincolnshire Man, are you listening? No of course not, unless somebody quotes me.)

    Yes, Sinn Fein and the IRA have given up the armed struggle, but what happens next? There has been no government in NI for two years since the DUP and Sinn Fein fell out. The province as a whole voted for Remain. What's going to happen post-Brexit? Will we see a return to the Troubles?
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  4. #14 | 2136276
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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    Imagine how annoyed we would have been if during the war if German soldiers (and their police force) were occupying part of our mainland , I think we would have felt more justification in carrying out the acts we did.

    Seems the Irish have more of a moral corner here.
    Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn!!!

  5. #15 | 2136457
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    St Lucia

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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    wishingwell
    Imagine how annoyed we would have been if during the war if German soldiers (and their police force) were occupying part of our mainland , I think we would have felt more justification in carrying out the acts we did.

    Seems the Irish have more of a moral corner here.
    Do you believe in democracy, WW?

    The thing is that the majority in Northern Ireland have persistently, since the creation of the entity, voted for parties favouring NI being part of the UK. So the moral corner to my mind is that we should respect their democratic will, and oppose people who wish to reverse that democratic will by acts of violence.

    Maybe one day NI will vote to reunite with the rest of Ireland, but it will happen peacefully via the ballot box.
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  6. #16 | 2136506
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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    Do you remember what happened when they voted Bobby Sands in? When Sinn Fein Got voted in ? Ever read anything about the shoot to kill policy?

    Yes I do think I would like democracy if we ever had it or get it.
    Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn!!!

  7. #17 | 2136509
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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    Plutonium
    we should respect their democratic will
    Why, we didn't with the EU referendum.

    I thought the new way was just to ignore the results of votes you don't like.
    Liked by: Nice Fred


  8. #18 | 2136601
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    St Lucia

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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    wishingwell
    Do you remember what happened when they voted Bobby Sands in? When Sinn Fein Got voted in ? Ever read anything about the shoot to kill policy?

    Yes I do think I would like democracy if we ever had it or get it.
    Our society isn't perfect but we have a free vote, and as I said before the majority of people in NI vote for parties wanting the area to remain part of the UK. It doesn't mean everything that has happened is justified, such as the shoot to kill policy.
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  9. #19 | 2136604
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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    Scrotnig
    Why, we didn't with the EU referendum.

    I thought the new way was just to ignore the results of votes you don't like.
    The EU referendum result is being respected. The problem has been negotiating a deal that will allow us to continue trading with the EU and allow an open border in Ireland. Theresa May negotiated a deal but it got voted down three times, including by politicians who said they wanted Brexit.
    Free Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

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  10. #20 | 2136609
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    Default Re: Joe McDonnel

    Scrotnig
    I thought the new way was just to ignore the results of votes you don't like.

    Would you take my advice if I gave it to you?

 


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