Who owns the hidden treasure?
Started by Memnoch, 11th June 2019 14:14 in Serious Discussion

  1. #11 | 2120300
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    LadyLush
    That is seriously cool. Why doesn’t this ever happen to me?
    Because you don't buy old stuff that other people have thrown out?

    Actually I'm not a bargain/antique hunter at all, there just happened to be an auction - glorified garage sale really - near where I live so I went along to see if there was anything I liked and could afford.
    YOU LOST. AGAIN.
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  2. #12 | 2120301
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    Memnoch
    Because you don't buy old stuff that other people have thrown out?

    Actually I'm not a bargain hunter at all, there just happened to be an auction near where I live so I went along to see if there was anything I liked and could afford.
    I do, I buy loads of stuff, it’s all kitchenware though. None of which has ever contained even a sniff of anything more valuable than a used Le Creuset casserole dish.

  3. #13 | 2120312
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    LadyLush
    I do, I buy loads of stuff, it’s all kitchenware though. None of which has ever contained even a sniff of anything more valuable than a used Le Creuset casserole dish.
    Funny story... The painting was described as "A woodland scene by Arthur Lowe". I would have loved it to be by the actor so I could offer it to RP on condition he change his online name to Stupid Boy, but it was a different Arthur Lowe.
    YOU LOST. AGAIN.

  4. #14 | 2120315
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    Memnoch
    Funny story... The painting was described as "A woodland scene by Arthur Lowe". I would have loved it to be by the actor so I could offer it to RP on condition he change his online name to Stupid Boy, but it was a different Arthur Lowe.
    I don't think RP does online stuff any more, not since he discovered GURLS at the age of about 32.
    .
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  5. #15 | 2120321
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    Memnoch
    Funny story... The painting was described as "A woodland scene by Arthur Lowe". I would have loved it to be by the actor so I could offer it to RP on condition he change his online name to Stupid Boy, but it was a different Arthur Lowe.
    Ahhh RP, he was adorable. He told me I looked exactly like my pictures and sounded surprised about it, I think he’d probably spent too much time here
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  6. #16 | 2120361
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    Memnoch
    OK, cards on the table, three years ago I paid £280 at auction for a painting which had supposedly hung in the same house since it was new a hundred years ago. A few weeks ago the frame got broken when I tripped and knocked it off the wall. I took it to a frame maker to see if it could be repaired because it's a gorgeous frame, probably worth more than the painting, and he found some gold coins hidden behind the canvas. I've already worked out the value of the actual gold by the weight, and the coins themselves aren't especially rare. They might be worth two or three grand tops. I wouldn't even sell them unless they're worth a lot more... probably have them made into jewellery to give to family members as presents. My only worry is what if they were stolen a hundred years ago... would they still be "hot"? I'd love to know who hid them and why, but finding out might mean they're not actually mine.

    Aaah, in that case, they might legally be treasure trove and you have to (legally) report the find to the local coroner. The Treasure Act of 1996 (and yes, obviously I googled that once I realised this could be defined as treasure) is taken quite seriously and you may find it difficult to find a jeweller prepared to melt them down without proof of ownership.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/24/contents

    Looking at the Act, the important this is, are they more than 200 years old?

    1. Meaning of “treasure”.

    (1)Treasure is—

    (a)any object at least 300 years old when found which—

    (i)is not a coin but has metallic content of which at least 10 per cent by weight is precious metal;

    (ii)when found, is one of at least two coins in the same find which are at least 300 years old at that time and have that percentage of precious metal; or

    (iii)when found, is one of at least ten coins in the same find which are at least 300 years old at that time;

    (b)any object at least 200 years old when found which belongs to a class designated under section 2(1);

    (c)any object which would have been treasure trove if found before the commencement of section 4;

    (d)any object which, when found, is part of the same find as—

    (i)an object within paragraph (a), (b) or (c) found at the same time or earlier; or

    (ii)an object found earlier which would be within paragraph (a) or (b) if it had been found at the same time.

    (2)Treasure does not include objects which are—

    (a)unworked natural objects, or

    (b)minerals as extracted from a natural deposit,

    or which belong to a class designated under section 2(2).



    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/24/contents
    TheDruid 3X3
    I am a Perfectly Useless Jackass who Know Nothing
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  7. #17 | 2120362
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    A more plain English advice site:

    https://finds.org.uk/treasure/advice/summary

    Any object that would previously have been treasure trove, but does not fall within the specific categories given above. Only objects that are less than 300 years old, that are made substantially of gold or silver, that have been deliberately hidden with the intention of recovery and whose owners or heirs are unknown will come into this category.

    I'm guessing this falls into that category. They seem to have been hidden with the intention of later recovery. I woudn't worry about the theft aspect, nobody's going to indentify them from any theft reported over 100 years ago.

    Two likelyhoods: (1) you'll be forced to sell them to a museum at the market price (which will at least the value of the gold in them), or (2) you'll get to keep them but will have documentation proving that you're the legal owner making it easier to get them melted down.

    If, as you say, they're not rare the second option is the most likely.

    I wouldn't worry about the notice period you could have found them yesterday for all they know.
    TheDruid 3X3
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  8. #18 | 2120371
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    Google it.
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    Get plutonium to Google the answer.

  9. #19 | 2120373
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    Fork Me
    A more plain English advice site:

    https://finds.org.uk/treasure/advice/summary

    Any object that would previously have been treasure trove, but does not fall within the specific categories given above. Only objects that are less than 300 years old, that are made substantially of gold or silver, that have been deliberately hidden with the intention of recovery and whose owners or heirs are unknown will come into this category.

    I'm guessing this falls into that category.
    Assuming they are "made substantially of gold", yes. I mean, why would anyone hide fakes? But what does "Any object that would previously have been treasure trove" mean? Previously when? If it means prior to the current Act, then all I can find is an earlier requirement that the objects were buried and that they were deliberately hidden with the intention of digging them up later. They weren't buried but they were hidden so that seems a bit ambiguous. There are cutoff dates of 300 years and 200 years for different types of objects and circumstances. Well I'm OK on both of those: They're definitely less than 300 years old because the person depicted on them was less than 200 years old when they were found.
    I'm surprised that the definition of treasure doesn't include value AFAICT. I reckon the maximum they could be worth is three grand total, and that doesn't sound like "treasure" to me.
    I think to be on the safe side I'll write to the coroner's office to see whether they're included in the definition.
    YOU LOST. AGAIN.

  10. #20 | 2120375
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    Default Re: Who owns the hidden treasure?

    Oh I like this coincidence: I've just had a quick Google on the person depicted on the coins and they were discovered on that person's 200th birthday. No doubt the mystics here will read some cosmic significance into that.
    YOU LOST. AGAIN.

 


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