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ydo ydo
6th April 2006, 15:38
I have tried searching for information on debunking of the bible code,but am unable to find any.

my interest in this started because of an item in todays paper claiming that the puzzle of evolution has been solved due to the discovery of a missing link.(a type of fish come amphibian creature)

now the bible code ideas are able to find seemingly true prophecies among the words of the bible,simply because there are so many letters in the book.

and i am sure this is what trap the evolutionists are falling into ,simply that there are and have been so many species that they were bound to find one that fitted the theory.

maybe if platypuss didnt exist and they found one fossilised they would hold it up as proof of one species changing ionto another.

Yojimbo
6th April 2006, 15:53
The people to speak to about this are definitely Chris Mitchell and AndyAstro. Their combined knowledge about this sort of thing is astounding. :yup2:

Memnoch
6th April 2006, 16:35
I'm quite sure I could, if I wanted to, selectively interpret the works of Shakespeare as a detailed prophetic account of the history of the Bay City Rollers.

Mumbojumboists are very proficient at identifying prophecies after the fact, but did they warn anyone in advance about Lockerbie, 7/7, or the birth of Mrs T? :rolleyes:

Sir Ian
6th April 2006, 16:39
He he he he.

Reg The Perring
6th April 2006, 17:46
816443 In 816443 Sir Ian said:
He he he he.


Ho ho ho ho.

The Teacher
6th April 2006, 23:34
Take any book, select an option, e.g. every 7th word, pick a different starting point each time and I would like to bet that you could get from it something that has happened in the past, e.g. WW2 breaking out.

It may take some time, you might make legible sentences to start with, but eventually you will come up with something. It is not difficult to do.

The Teacher

Memnoch
7th April 2006, 00:12
816736 In 816736 The Teacher said:
you might make legible sentences to start with, And this is a problem because...?

Jesus Christ
7th April 2006, 01:04
Mine words are mine inspiration.

Chris Mitchell
7th April 2006, 01:15
Debunking the Bible Code isn't entirely trivial, because the original paper proposing it wasn't in some wacko New Age magazine, but was proposed by mathematician Eliyahu Rips and whose results appeared in a respectable peer-reviewed scientific publication, Statistical Science, Vol 9 in 1994. At the time, the obvious arguments such as those The Teacher has proposed were already put forward; indeed, prior to his notoriety as the "discoverer" of the Bible Codes, Dr. Rips was known mainly for his contributions to group theory, a field of mathematics. As a mathematician, he was well aware of the implications of publishing such claims, and took great care to avoid the obvious pitfalls of seeing "faces in the fire". There's an abridged version of the original paper here: http://www.torahcodes.co.il/wrr1/wrr1.htm available to anyone. If you work in an educational establishment with JSTOR access, you can access the full original paper here: http://uk.jstor.org/view/08834237/di984045/98p0065l/0


His initial thesis was that the Hebrew bible contains hidden codes. In itself, this isn't surprising - the authors of the biblical texts often deliberately used puns and ciphers, so finding some hidden codes isn't at all surprising. What was astonishing about Rips' claim is that the bible encoded not only facts known to the writers, but the names of great Jewish philosophers linked to birth places long before these philosophers had been born. His results were published in Statistical Science; the article was peer reviewed (by mainly atheist scientists) and put in as a sort of curiousity, inviting rebuttals.

Unfortunately, the journalist Michael Drosnin then jumped on the bandwagon, and took this extraordinary, but not headline grabbing, concept and claimed to have worked with Dr. Rips in discovering numerous hidden messages in the Bible predicting practically everything that had ever happened. This was then followed by numerous other authors, who didn't even have the rudimentary understanding that Drosnin had; Drosnin did understand the concepts, but wanted to write a best seller. Later authors didn't even understand the concept.

So to debunk the Bible Code, it depends which Bible Code you want to debunk.

To debunk later authors is easy - the arguments put forward by The Teacher and Mem would do so.

To debunk Drosnin is fairly easy - in answer to Mem's point, Drosnin claims that the Bible code did indeed forsee the assassination of Rabin - one only has to read Dr. Rips' own public statement distancing himself from Drosnin here: http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Articles_V/Torah_Extracts.htm

For a fuller debunking of Drosnin's work, I'd recommend "The Truth Behind the Bible Code" by Jeffrey Satinover.

To debunk Rips' original work, apparently there is now a refutation in Statistical Science - see the link here:

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/StatSci/

It's in Vol 14, 1999, but I haven't read this yet.

The Teacher
7th April 2006, 23:05
Apologies, the word "not" was missing from my last post and I didn't spot it until Memoch pointed it out.

The Teacher

ydo ydo
10th April 2006, 13:57
thats great Chris new knowledge to me,Ive not read the links yet but I'm sure aspects of so called modern science follows in the footsteps of the latter books

evolution and criminal psychology are two that spring to mind.

grouping coincidences to prove a point,when the choice of datum is extremely large,obviously patterns emerge.