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Bill. MC
27th August 2004, 00:29
I don't know if this is still acceptable in this politically correct day and age. When I was at school it was a common practice for teachers, particularly male ones to address the boys by their surnames and the girls by their Christian names.

Does anyone know the reason why they did this

Memnoch
27th August 2004, 01:17
Because all the boys were called Bill?

The Teacher
27th August 2004, 01:26
It depends.

I sometimes call boys and girls by their surname and their nicknames BUT only if they ask me to do so, i.e. they don't like their given name, or it is a name even their parents call them.

I have several pupils who will not answer to their given names, boys and girls, and so I have to use nicknames or surnames.

However, as soon a pupil says "I don't like that any more", and it does ocassionally, then I revert back to their given name unless they say otherwise.

In the olden days I think it was perhaps so there was no over familiarity between pupils and staff, remembering that in those days a lot of teachers still wore cap and gown.

The Teacher

Katitude
27th August 2004, 02:32
There is a female teacher at my youngest daughters school, who will call certain children by their surnames and not their forename, my daughter included! For example - there is a little boy in my daughters class whose surname is *Twist*........this female teacher will call him *Twisty* when addressing him. In my view it is unacceptable! She will also add an *sy* to the end of my daughters surname (which I won't type here).....but let's just say that the name she calls her, is not her proper surname!!

Needless to say if it continues after the school holidays. I will be paying a not so pleasant visit and she will be informed on this visit that my daughter does in fact, have a forename and could she kindly refrain from calling my daughter, the silly and childish name she will use to call her.

The Teacher
27th August 2004, 02:39
I cannot fault you.

It is like I said above. If a pupil consents, and if parents consent then there is not a problem. I get on well with the parents of those I teach and of those that are in my form. Parents have heard me call their offspring by their surnames or nicknames without complaint, but it must stop if they or the pupil says so.

Complain strongly to the teacher first, and if he/she continues go to the head. If it still continues then go to the LEA.

If I can be of help let me know.

The Teacher

Scrotnig
27th August 2004, 07:40
At my school, (all boys), it was surnames ONLY, like it or lump it. I went through a phase of refusing to answer to it, because I considered it rude and demeaning, given that all the teachers had to be referred to as 'sir'.

Although teachers did not wear caps and gowns, the headmaster and deputy headmasters still did when conducting assemblies.

This was not decades ago....I only left 10 years ago!

To the best of my knowledge, these practices have not changed. It's an odd school, it used to be a private grammar school, it is now not technically a grammar school but still acts very much as if it is. It also has a contract with the council to provide places for all local boys, so although private, everybody goes there whether they like it or not, just as if it was run by the council.

It's an evil place. Totally evil. It did me untold harm.

Mischief
27th August 2004, 09:29
in my scool all the teachers called all the students by their first name so we never had a problem like that! s:13 s:14 :j0 :j7 :j3

but y did they do that?

Dordie
27th August 2004, 09:44
I see nothing wrong with using surnames. Some people are too vain. How many times do you do it on here with Blair, etc.

This is not a sink estate school trend, this goes on at Eton, Harrow and the school I went to.

Often it is a term of endearment. Not recognised by the vain.

I am writing here of the *CORRECT* surname. Not an attempt at mutilated irony and sarcasm.

Teacher....'Harry'! Three pupils.....'Which Harry sir' ?.... Gertcha!!

Fork Me
27th August 2004, 12:12
523952 In Post 523952, The Teacher said:
It depends.

I sometimes call boys and girls by their surname and their nicknames BUT only if they ask me to do so, i.e. they don't like their given name, or it is a name even their parents call them.

I have several pupils who will not answer to their given names, boys and girls, and so I have to use nicknames or surnames.


I must admit, I tend to call the kids whatever they want to be called. Although with some of my tutor group, who I know exceptionally well, I use a nickname when talking to them normally and their full first name when they're in trouble.

They know instantly then when they've gone too far.

Fork Me

Fork Me
27th August 2004, 12:15
523967 In Post 523967, The Teacher said:
I cannot fault you.

It is like I said above. If a pupil consents, and if parents consent then there is not a problem.

Some kids can be funny about shortened versions of names though, wanting teachers they get on with or have known for a long time to call them by a shortened version and teachers they don't like or are new by their full name.

Fork Me

Arthur
27th August 2004, 17:30
When I went to school it was last name only with direct eye contact( something that is lacking in many youngsters of today) between the pupil and the teacher, teachers were addressed as Sir or Miss dependant on their gender.

The head was referred to as Mr Bell by pupils and teachers alike, there was no mistaking who was in charge of the school, the head and teachers not the pupils.

I do not like the relaxing of these basic rules of curesty and good manners that are sadly lacking in many today.

Katitude
27th August 2004, 21:27
When I was at secondary school we were addressed by our forenames by most teachers. Our French teacher however, (who was a frenchman) would address a lad in my class by *fat bastard*, if he was in a bad mood. Used to be quite funny to see him in a bad mood, he would go bright red and spit when he shouted.......lol

We also had to call them by *Sir* or *Miss*.

No mistaking our Head Teacher either. He walked around like Hitler, brandishing a cane 100% of the time.
His son and daughter were top prefects.....favoritism or what?

Reg Perrin
27th August 2004, 22:46
I went to a Catholic Primary School. Not only did the teachers (except my mum who taught me) address all the children by their second name, the boys called all the girls by their second name. You have no idea how much of a barrier this was at discos in 1972 .................Hey..Smith...wanna dance? Needless to say, it did me no harm.

Dordie
27th August 2004, 22:51
524229 In Post 524229, Reg Perrin said:
I went to a Catholic Primary School. Not only did the teachers (except my mum who taught me) address all the children by their second name, the boys called all the girls by their second name. You have no idea how much of a barrier this was at discos in 1972 .................Hey..Smith...wanna dance? Needless to say, it did me no harm.


What was it then that did do the harm?

Reg Perrin
27th August 2004, 23:09
524233 In Post 524233, Dordie said:
What was it then that did do the harm?





Did or do?

zoofer
27th August 2004, 23:49
I'd rather say "Arnie" than work on "Swartzenegger".

The Teacher
28th August 2004, 02:20
and their full first name when they're in trouble

What I do in these cases is call them by their surname but prefix it with either Mr. or Miss.

Then they know they are in bother!!

The Teacher

Fork Me
28th August 2004, 11:35
524347 In Post 524347, The Teacher said:
What I do in these cases is call them by their surname but prefix it with either Mr. or Miss.

Then they know they are in bother!!

The Teacher

Anything that works is good!

That's what many on here fail to understand.

There is no one way of getting kids to do the right thing. Each teacher has their own methods and that's the way it should be.

Not every technique works for every teacher or for every child.

Fork Me

Arthur
28th August 2004, 13:43
524414 In Post 524414, Fork Me said:
Anything that works is good!

That's what many on here fail to understand.

There is no one way of getting kids to do the right thing. Each teacher has their own methods and that's the way it should be.

Not every technique works for every teacher or for every child.

Fork Me


The well tried tested method of standard conformity did work well but was rejected and overturned since the late 1970's in many schools.

Thousands of parents now keep their children away from badly run schools, with bad disciplince records, bad exam results, because of this and sad to say badly trained teachers.

Dordie
28th August 2004, 14:30
Especially left wing poofs.

Fork Me
28th August 2004, 14:36
524471 In Post 524471, Arthur said:
The well tried tested method of standard conformity did work well but was rejected and overturned since the late 1970's in many schools.

It never worked well, that was the problem.

It suited some children but not others.

Fork Me

Dordie
28th August 2004, 16:30
524471 In Post 524471, Arthur said:
The well tried tested method of standard conformity did work well but was rejected and overturned since the late 1970's in many schools.

Thousands of parents now keep their children away from badly run schools, with bad disciplince records, bad exam results, because of this and sad to say badly trained teachers.


If I were a teacher, it would be MY will that prevailed.

If I wanted to surname them, that's what it would be.

The pupils would HAVE NO SAY in the matter...None.

Fork Me
28th August 2004, 17:02
524498 In Post 524498, Dordie said:
If I were a teacher, it would be MY will that prevailed.

If I wanted to surname them, that's what it would be.

The pupils would HAVE NO SAY in the matter...None.

Then you would find that you got crap results.

Fork Me

Smiler
28th August 2004, 17:19
524016 In Post 524016, Fork Me said:
Some kids can be funny about shortened versions of names though, wanting teachers they get on with or have known for a long time to call them by a shortened version and teachers they don't like or are new by their full name.

Fork Me


Yep i totally agree with that, the younger teachers who i get on with at my school tend to call me Dani, however the teachers i see as stricter and tend to stay out of the way of always call me Danielle and wouldnt dream of calling anyone by their nickname. I go to an all girls school, but we do a lot of joint things with the all boys school down the road and i got to say how shocked i was at how the male teachers addressed the boys and would not be happy if it were me.....but my friends are used to it and it doesnt bother them.For them its the norm so whats the problem??
:s8 :s8

Arthur
28th August 2004, 20:31
524485 In Post 524485, Fork Me said:
It never worked well, that was the problem.

It suited some children but not others.

Fork Me



Are you trying to tell me and the thousands of angry upset parents across the country they are all wrong, I remeber both systems, the old fashoined way which many schools are now trying to reinvent. I also have put my 2 children over the last 20 years through the modern unregimented undiciplied system of today, which has and is failing thousands of kids daily.

The old system did not suit all no system ever will the new system suits even less the gobby undiciplined children now dominate the schools and hold back those who really want to work, recent reports show on average 10 pupils a week are excluded from schools as they will not behave.

I have 2 close friends who are teachers both in the profession for over 25 years, both in Inner London both are taking early retirement as they are both disgusted with the modern day kids, parents and polictial interference in their choosen occupation.

The press is full of complaints by parents, the dumbing down of the entire system, the falling standards, as per usual New Labour are having to re-invent the wheel, all spin and lies.

Dordie
28th August 2004, 20:42
How could it be possible to work alongside such a veritably stupid person such as Jason Stainer.

He's the type with a bad word for any and everything on earth.

He choses the path of controversy, of contrary remarks, of derision to all and sundry.

If I was unfortunate enough to work with him and he displayed the same qualities at work as he does here.

I would knock six colours of shit out of him and walk out of my job.

And Stainer, **if you were daft enough to drive me to it** you would have NO CHANCE IN HELL OF STOPPING ME LAD however big you are.

Adrenalin will overcome lard in all instances.

Smiler
29th August 2004, 18:57
524585 In Post 524585, Dordie said:
How could it be possible to work alongside such a veritably stupid person such as Jason Stainer.

He's the type with a bad word for any and everything on earth.

He choses the path of controversy, of contrary remarks, of derision to all and sundry.

If I was unfortunate enough to work with him and he displayed the same qualities at work as he does here.

I would knock six colours of shit out of him and walk out of my job.

And Stainer, **if you were daft enough to drive me to it** you would have NO CHANCE IN HELL OF STOPPING ME LAD however big you are.

Adrenalin will overcome lard in all instances.


hehehehehe dont make me laugh


:hide2: :rofl:

Dordie
29th August 2004, 20:25
524913 In Post 524913, Smiler said:
hehehehehe dont make me laugh


:hide2: :rofl:


I'm not trying to, it was addressed to a plonker. And his mate if he deems it fits.

Fork Me
29th August 2004, 20:37
524585 In Post 524585, Dordie said:


I would knock six colours of shit out of him and walk out of my job.


Which says a lot more about you than it does anyone else.

Fork me

somanyways
29th August 2004, 22:09
523986 In Post 523986, Dordie said:
I see nothing wrong with using surnames. Some people are too vain. How many times do you do it on here with Blair, etc.

This is not a sink estate school trend, this goes on at Eton, Harrow and the school I went to.

Often it is a term of endearment. Not recognised by the vain.

I am writing here of the *CORRECT* surname. Not an attempt at mutilated irony and sarcasm.

Teacher....'Harry'! Three pupils.....'Which Harry sir' ?.... Gertcha!!


normally the teacher makes eye contact with the student they are talking to


524498 In Post 524498, Dordie said:
If I were a teacher, it would be MY will that prevailed.

If I wanted to surname them, that's what it would be.

The pupils would HAVE NO SAY in the matter...None.


you would quickly find students turning against you and no work being completed in the lesson,
the most effective way for a teacher to be succesful at their job is to earn their respect

Dordie
29th August 2004, 22:11
524975 In Post 524975, somanyways said:
normally the teacher makes eye contact with the student they are talking to



you would quickly find students turning against you and no work being completed in the lesson,
the most effective way for a teacher to be succesful at their job is to earn their respect



Kinda backs up my theory, that kids are in charge. Right?

somanyways
29th August 2004, 22:22
524977 In Post 524977, Dordie said:
Kinda backs up my theory, that kids are in charge. Right?


erm no it doesn't, it shows that the best way to learn is from somebody who you get on with, it does not show they are in charge, if they were in charge truency rates would be into and over 90%

Dordie
29th August 2004, 22:24
524991 In Post 524991, somanyways said:
erm no it doesn't, it shows that the best way to learn is from somebody who you get on with, it does not show they are in charge, if they were in charge truency rates would be into and over 90%


Still kinda backs up my theory, there's no control. They do as they like.

somanyways
29th August 2004, 22:34
524991 In Post 524991, somanyways said:
erm no it doesn't, it shows that the best way to learn is from somebody who you get on with, it does not show they are in charge, if they were in charge truency rates would be into and over 90%


like i said

Dordie
29th August 2004, 22:37
525005 In Post 525005, somanyways said:
like i said

Big deal...tell you what! Have it your way...how's that? My school days are long gone.

Pity those coming off the conveyor belt are so dumb these days. Bye!

somanyways
29th August 2004, 22:41
maybe, but this doesn't mean the students don't deserve respect

Nimuae
29th August 2004, 22:45
Where I was at school all the teachers wore their academic gowns ( with caps on speech days). It was an all girls school, and we were all addressed by surnames. Teachers were "Sir", "Miss", or "Sister" (Nuns!). We stood up when a teacher entered a room - and would certainly NEVER address one by his/her first name as pupils seem to do today. We had clear guide lines for our behaviour/conduct in class and were (rightly) punished if we strayed.

At my Junior school the cane was still in use, at my Grammar school punishment took the form of detentions or extra homework. During the whole of my school life I was caned only twice - deserved it on both occasions, and never committed those particular misdemeanors again.

But it is no use blaming the teachers entirely for the current lack of
discipline - this should begin in the home, and if children do break school rules and are punished for it - then their parents should back the teachers - not rush up to the school to complain!

Dordie
29th August 2004, 22:46
525013 In Post 525013, somanyways said:
maybe, but this doesn't mean the students don't deserve respect


Do you recognise the word "Bye"? He needs it explaining folks.

somanyways
29th August 2004, 22:51
525017 In Post 525017, Dordie said:
Do you recognise the word "Bye"?


yes, when playing cricket if the ball is legal and should pass the batsman without contact and runs are scored these are byes, or a bye if singular

Colonel
29th August 2004, 22:55
525016 In Post 525016, Nimuae said:
Where I was at school all the teachers wore their academic gowns ( with caps on speech days). It was an all girls school, and we were all addressed by surnames. Teachers were "Sir", "Miss", or "Sister" (Nuns!). We stood up when a teacher entered a room - and would certainly NEVER address one by his/her first name as pupils seem to do today. We had clear guide lines for our behaviour/conduct in class and were (rightly) punished if we strayed.

At my Junior school the cane was still in use, at my Grammar school punishment took the form of detentions or extra homework. During the whole of my school life I was caned only twice - deserved it on both occasions, and never committed those particular misdemeanors again.

But it is no use blaming the teachers entirely for the current lack of
discipline - this should begin in the home, and if children do break school rules and are punished for it - then their parents should back the teachers - not rush up to the school to complain!

Exactly the same in my Grammar school Nimuae. Detentions were the order of the day. These were always taken by the Latin Master and we just had to keep on writing lines from 4.05 when school finished until 5.00 pm.

Three detentions in one week meant that you had to go to school on Saturday morning from 0900 till 1200.

I wonder what parents would make of that these days.

Colonel

Dordie
29th August 2004, 23:04
525022 In Post 525022, Colonel said:
Exactly the same in my Grammar school Nimuae. Detentions were the order of the day. These were always taken by the Latin Master and we just had to keep on writing lines from 4.05 when school finished until 5.00 pm.

Three detentions in one week meant that you had to go to school on Saturday morning from 0900 till 1200.

I wonder what parents would make of that these days.

Colonel


Or this geezer who has been attempting to extract the urine from me but failed.......dismally.

Colonel
29th August 2004, 23:08
525031 In Post 525031, Dordie said:
Or this geezer who has been attempting to extract the urine from me but failed.......dismally.



I am sure that the geezer you are referring to did not go to school Don.

Colonel

somanyways
29th August 2004, 23:21
525010 In Post 525010, Dordie said:
Big deal...tell you what! Have it your way...how's that? My school days are long gone.

Pity those coming off the conveyor belt are so dumb these days. Bye!


if you do not like the person who is teaching you, the likelihood is that students will not pay attention and will turn off for the remaining of the lesson, not taking any information in

The Teacher
30th August 2004, 01:47
normally the teacher makes eye contact with the student they are talking to

Very difficult in classes of 30 - 35, especially when doing practical subjects.

WRT the rest of what you say, my will prevails in my classroom, and the kids know it. I have no trouble within the classroom and ALL the kids learn.

Admittedly I may have to go around and chivy a few along now and again, but I certainly do not let them do what they want.

Yes, I will have a laugh with them. Yes, I will talk to them about their interests, fears or anything they are bothered with, but they are there to learn, and I am there to teach. Together we do both very well, as has been proven by inspection.

The Teacher

somanyways
30th August 2004, 12:03
then you probably have the kids respect, or they atleast don't mind their lessons with you, but if a student loathes a teacher then it is pretty little effort will be made in the lesson to learn

The Teacher
31st August 2004, 01:59
I agree, but I put that down more to poor teaching than anything else.

It shouldn't be, but it is, up to the teacher to get his/her pupils on their side. You MUST lay down YOUR own ground rules in order that the kids know what they can and cannot get away with.

A teacher also needs to be confident in controlling a class, show them fear, and like a wild animal, they will attack. A teacher MUST also be confident in the subject that they are teaching. It is OK being knowledgable in a subject but knowledge is no good if a teacher cannot transmit that knowledge to their pupils.

Yes, I do have the respect of the kids in my classes, and I have some pupils who will do sod all for other staff, but I let them know at the beginning of each school year what MY rules are, and I remind them at the start of each term.

The Teacher

somanyways
31st August 2004, 10:46
525850 In Post 525850, The Teacher said:
I agree, but I put that down more to poor teaching than anything else.


which is what i've been pointing out ot Dordie

The Teacher
1st September 2004, 00:41
We all have our opinions.

I have some staff, especially some of the new ones, saying I shouldn't be too harsh, perhaps to relax a little.

OK, I tell them, but let us look at results at the year end and see whose method is better.

I have already mentioned the SATs results for my Y9 class, a poor class when they came to me. They outstripped everybody else with the exception of the two top sets.

That is without being relaxed and soft!!

The Teacher

somanyways
1st September 2004, 10:28
fair enough but that was not the point i was originally making Dordie

Bill. MC
1st September 2004, 10:50
IMO the kids should get back at the teachers and call them by their surnames. Hello Stainer! oops forgot you are the Janny. :fish: