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sphinx
1st March 2016, 17:01
More than One in Ten Local Councils Are Moving to Criminalise Homelessness

Local councils across England and Wales are criminalising the homeless. Freedom of Information requests submitted by VICE reveal that powers designed to tackle anti-social behaviour are being used to make activity such as rough sleeping, begging and loitering illegal.
Councils were given powers to introduce the bans, known as public spaces protection orders (PSPOs), in October 2014. They allow local councillors to ban any activities which have a "detrimental effect on the quality of life of those in the locality". They're like ASBOs for your neighbourhood. They allow for blanket bans across whole areas, turning things that are not illegal into criminal offences. If you break a PSPO you get a 100 fine. Non-payment can land you in court with a criminal conviction and a 1,000 fine.
more here (http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/local-councils-across-england-and-wales-are-criminalising-the-homeless?utm_source=vicetwitteruk)

I think this is obscene. How on earth are homeless people, who have nothing, going to pay a fine of 100...let alone 1,000? Ridiculous.

Durgemeister
1st March 2016, 17:16
More than One in Ten Local Councils Are Moving to Criminalise Homelessness

Local councils across England and Wales are criminalising the homeless. Freedom of Information requests submitted by VICE reveal that powers designed to tackle anti-social behaviour are being used to make activity such as rough sleeping, begging and loitering illegal.
Councils were given powers to introduce the bans, known as public spaces protection orders (PSPOs), in October 2014. They allow local councillors to ban any activities which have a "detrimental effect on the quality of life of those in the locality". They're like ASBOs for your neighbourhood. They allow for blanket bans across whole areas, turning things that are not illegal into criminal offences. If you break a PSPO you get a 100 fine. Non-payment can land you in court with a criminal conviction and a 1,000 fine.
more here (http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/local-councils-across-england-and-wales-are-criminalising-the-homeless?utm_source=vicetwitteruk)

I think this is obscene. How on earth are homeless people, who have nothing, going to pay a fine of 100...let alone 1,000? Ridiculous.

A classic case of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "La la la la la" to the social problems in this country, some of which was partially set in motion in the early 80s, with the near total destruction of the Mental health sector (amongst other things). Hardly surprising when we have a government that is unapologetic about attempting to force the terminally ill into work.

Why is it even being done ? Have we really come to the stage where we care more about the value of our property than the fact our country is going further and further down the pan ?

Dordie
1st March 2016, 17:26
Local councils across England and Wales are criminalising the homeless

Central government are presiding over unmanned borders. Scrot has collared a huge chuck of housing in Leicester and is never there.

Calidore
1st March 2016, 17:29
blanket ban, ha ha.

Calidore
1st March 2016, 17:34
there's so many homeless or begging people round here that it really irks me. don't know why they they just don't build concrete cells with secure locks so they can sleep well for the night, like prison but free, then they could be hosed down each day. or just let them nestle in burrows. I don't know.

Reg Perrin
1st March 2016, 17:49
there's so many homeless or begging people round here that it really irks me. don't know why they they just don't build concrete cells with secure locks so they can sleep well for the night, like prison but free, then they could be hosed down each day. or just let them nestle in burrows. I don't know.

LOL

Dordie
1st March 2016, 17:58
LOL

No laughing matter, I say cull the fuckers.

Canuckistan
1st March 2016, 18:08
It's a serious problem, and a complex one which doesn't have a single solution.

Some members of that element are somewhere between criminal and dangerous.

Some members are in that situation purely due to self-inflicted injuries.

And some members of that element are there through no fault of their own.

I don't know why the governmental bureaucracy is incapable of differentiating.

Lord Ponsonby
1st March 2016, 21:03
And some members of that element are there through no fault of their own.


Nobody rams Special Brew down their throats, I can assure you.

Calidore
1st March 2016, 21:45
A night out never killed anyone. Wrap up warm.

Alice
1st March 2016, 22:02
A night out never killed anyone. Wrap up warm.

There was an article on the news earlier about people sleeping in those big bins. I'm sure they said something like 13 people died in them last year due to them being put through a crusher. :unsure10:

Calidore
1st March 2016, 22:28
Oh, that's bad. Well, we can't protect everyone. We have to do our best, I suppose.

Calidore
1st March 2016, 22:31
What we have is people who are too ill to look after themselves, they can't be helped all the time. If the coppers find them they should only be fined if they refuse to go to shelters.

bill jarvis
1st March 2016, 22:35
It's a serious problem, and a complex one which doesn't have a single solution.

Some members of that element are somewhere between criminal and dangerous.

Some members are in that situation purely due to self-inflicted injuries.

And some members of that element are there through no fault of their own.

I don't know why the governmental bureaucracy is incapable of differentiating.We know the problems, what's the answer?
Certainly not letting more and more people into the country.

Dordie
1st March 2016, 22:44
Certainly not letting more and more people into the country.

Especially as there are too few schools for our own. Not to mention the NHS!

Scrotnig
2nd March 2016, 12:59
A classic case of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "La la la la la" to the social problems in this country, some of which was partially set in motion in the early 80s, with the near total destruction of the Mental health sector (amongst other things). Hardly surprising when we have a government that is unapologetic about attempting to force the terminally ill into work.
This masks the real issue which is thirteen years of Labour government opening the floodgates to anyone who wanted to come here.

We din't have enough housing then, and relatively speaking we've built very little since. It's a problem that was entirely created by Nu-Lab, and it suits the current government to turn a blind eye to it.

Scrotnig
2nd March 2016, 13:00
There was an article on the news earlier about people sleeping in those big bins. I'm sure they said something like 13 people died in them last year due to them being put through a crusher. :unsure10:

Sounds a bit like a candidate for a Darwin award to be honest.

Fork Me
2nd March 2016, 15:48
This masks the real issue which is thirteen years of Labour government opening the floodgates to anyone who wanted to come here.

We din't have enough housing then, and relatively speaking we've built very little since. It's a problem that was entirely created by Nu-Lab, and it suits the current government to turn a blind eye to it.

Don't be silly. the problem started BEFORE Labour came to power. "Care in the community" actually equated to huge savings by no care at all, and we're still paying the price now.

The real issue is not immigration no matter how much you and the other rightards want to use it as a catch all for every problem the country has.

Dordie
2nd March 2016, 16:00
Don't be silly. the problem started BEFORE Labour came to power. "Care in the community" actually equated to huge savings by no care at all, and we're still paying the price now.

The real issue is not immigration no matter how much you and the other rightards want to use it as a catch all for every problem the country has.

Immigration is the root cause of most problems and the left are to blame for it.

sphinx
2nd March 2016, 16:56
Don't be silly. the problem started BEFORE Labour came to power. "Care in the community" actually equated to huge savings by no care at all, and we're still paying the price now.


True, and sadly many of the 'homeless' people are somewhat mentally handicapped.
It makes me sad to see so many 'office blocks' which have never been used since they were built and could (at very little cost) provide studio flats, or at least sleeping spaces, for so many distressed people.

Scrotnig
2nd March 2016, 17:09
Don't be silly. the problem started BEFORE Labour came to power. "Care in the community" actually equated to huge savings by no care at all, and we're still paying the price now.

The real issue is not immigration no matter how much you and the other rightards want to use it as a catch all for every problem the country has.
I'm not a rightard.

There is a very simple issue here.
Homelessness happens because there are too few houses available. That is an inescapable fact.

In such circumstances, opening the floodgates to everyone and anyone who wants to come here seems utterly stupid. Where exactly were these people going to live, given that we ALREADY had a homelessness problem?

To say immigration has no bearing on the issue is standard leftie bullsh!t.

Canuckistan
2nd March 2016, 17:16
I'm not a rightard.

There is a very simple issue here.
Homelessness happens because there are too few houses available. That is an inescapable fact.

In such circumstances, opening the floodgates to everyone and anyone who wants to come here seems utterly stupid. Where exactly were these people going to live, given that we ALREADY had a homelessness problem?

To say immigration has no bearing on the issue is standard leftie bullsh!t.

You are essentially saying, it appears to me, that everyone should be given housing for free.

Is that your position?

sphinx
2nd March 2016, 17:18
To say immigration has no bearing on the issue is standard leftie bullsh!t.

Obviously it has a bearing on it. :rolleyes:

The fact that homelessness has increased by several hundred percent since 1980 speaks for itself.

sphinx
2nd March 2016, 17:22
You are essentially saying, it appears to me, that everyone should be given housing for free.

Is that your position?

I don't believe any of us think that, but the problem is that there are NO houses/flats/rooms anythings available for rent for the poorer members of our society, yet councils (especially some of the London ones) bend over backwards to find accommodation for immigrants.
Many of us just think that our own people, born and bred here, should be put first.
To have just ONE person sleeping on the streets is an outrage imo.

wishingwell
2nd March 2016, 17:22
Wont it be the immigrants who will be employed in building new homes?


Theft of housing by the banks should be addressed, the empty homes owned directly and indirectly by big concerns should be illegal, they should be returned to the people and compensation paid. All rents should be lowered to something akin to an insurance anything above that should be treated as theft and the landlords taken to court.

sphinx
2nd March 2016, 17:24
Wont it be the immigrants who will be employed in building new homes?


Of course not. They have no experience in building anything and wouldn't be given a job doing so.


heft of housing by the banks should be addressed, the empty homes owned directly and indirectly by big concerns should be illegal, they should be returned to the people and compensation paid. All rents should be lowered to something akin to an insurance anything above that should be treated as theft and the landlords taken to court.



Good points

wishingwell
2nd March 2016, 17:29
They are building a new cinema near my sisters Sphinx and I notice there were quite a few foreigners working on it.


I myself know nothing about certain types of construction but have been employed doing specialist jobs through contractors who probably put in the cheapest tender then get people like me to do it cheap as possible.

I've heard so called experts saying they don't know why deaths and injuries are rising in the construction industry.

bill jarvis
2nd March 2016, 19:41
The real issue is not immigration no matter how much you and the other rightards want to use it as a catch all for every problem the country has.
Like Housing, crime and doctors/hospital waiting lists?

Plutonium
2nd March 2016, 19:58
I think this is obscene. How on earth are homeless people, who have nothing, going to pay a fine of 100...let alone 1,000? Ridiculous.

They can't, so they get sent to prison instead. Where they have a roof over their heads, and food, all paid for by the taxpayer. Result!

Fork Me
2nd March 2016, 20:21
I'm not a rightard.

Yes you are, and the over simplified silly rant that I've cut from your post confirms it.

bill jarvis
2nd March 2016, 20:30
Yes you are, and the over simplified silly rant that I've cut from your post confirms it.
How silly.

KiNoRonin
3rd March 2016, 02:08
Homelessness should not be a Criminal Offence so long as No Harm is done.

If the Homeless can Live Peacefully and with Tranquility, then leave them be at their Peace and Tranquility.

I once tried Living Freely in a Camping RV Van without any Fixed Address but it did not work cause TWS did not adapt to it. And since no one would Adopt TWS, I had to give up on that idea.


3X3

wishingwell
3rd March 2016, 11:14
Owning a bigger home than you need could be made an offence seeing as those in social housing got hit with a bedroom tax if they had a spare room. (may as well have imposed fines!)

Joe 90
3rd March 2016, 14:18
Owning a bigger home than you need could be made an offence...

Grea idea. The local authorities could pay loads of people 30k a year to police it..........of course it'd be an unmitigated disaster and cost the taxpayer millions, but that wouldn't matter.

On the other hand, if every finger-wagging, bleeding-heart leftie opened up their home to one homeless person, the problem would disappear overnight. But then, actions speak louder than words, don't they?

wishingwell
3rd March 2016, 15:53
Grea idea. The local authorities could pay loads of people 30k a year to police it..........of course it'd be an unmitigated disaster and cost the taxpayer millions, but that wouldn't matter.

On the other hand, if every finger-wagging, bleeding-heart leftie opened up their home to one homeless person, the problem would disappear overnight. But then, actions speak louder than words, don't they?

What would it have to do with being left or right? , surely if you were applying that philosophy then it would apply to anyone regardless of political allegiance, that is anyone with more space in their home than they need.

wishingwell
3rd March 2016, 15:56
Another point....cost should not matter at all when it comes to the basic needs of the human being, after all automatic bai-louts happened at a massive cost to us without anyoone saying "How much is it going to cost !?" they just did it automatically.

Joe 90
3rd March 2016, 17:26
What would it have to do with being left or right?

Because it's usually those on the left who come up with such nuggets of wisdom as "Owning a bigger home than you need could be made an offence..."


...surely if you were applying that philosophy then it would apply to anyone regardless of political allegiance, that is anyone with more space in their home than they need.

It might, had I not chosen to apply it to those who wag their fingers self righteously at everyone else, but who rarely lift a finger to help address whatever problem it is they're complaining about.

wishingwell
4th March 2016, 11:19
Because it's usually those on the left who come up with such nuggets of wisdom as "Owning a bigger home than you need could be made an offence..."



It might, had I not chosen to apply it to those who wag their fingers self righteously at everyone else, but who rarely lift a finger to help address whatever problem it is they're complaining about.

But it is more than finger wagging from the Rightwing isn't it? They made it a law that the poor with bigger homes than they needed had to pay more or get out, give me finger wagging any day.

Seeing has they have had their botties smacked because it is not legal, what type of compensation can we expect, or are they going to get away scot free again?

Joe 90
4th March 2016, 12:44
But it is more than finger wagging from the Rightwing isn't it? They made it a law that the poor with bigger homes than they needed had to pay more or get out, give me finger wagging any day.

Ah, you've apparently returned to the government and bedroom tax. We were talking about people (civilians) and their propensity for finger wagging and doing little else, but perhaps that was making you feel a little uncomfortable...


Seeing has they have had their botties smacked because it is not legal, what type of compensation can we expect, or are they going to get away scot free again?

How much compensation are you expecting, Wishingwell............and for what? As for governments 'getting away scot free', how did you feel about sending many of our soldiers to their deaths in Iraq on the basis of a complete lie? Or does the bedroom tax upset you more?

wishingwell
4th March 2016, 12:57
Ah, you've apparently returned to the government and bedroom tax. We were talking about people (civilians) and their propensity for finger wagging and doing little else, but perhaps that was making you feel a little uncomfortable...

So you are separating the government criminals from us are you. letting them off the hook.




How much compensation are you expecting, Wishingwell............and for what? As for governments 'getting away scot free', how did you feel about sending many of our soldiers to their deaths in Iraq on the basis of a complete lie? Or does the bedroom tax upset you more?

Both having caused the early deaths of people then I expect some compensation for r their families...but hang on I thought you only wanted to talk about civilians?

Joe 90
4th March 2016, 15:01
So you are separating the government criminals from us are you.

Yes.


letting them off the hook.

What are you doing about it, Wishingwell?


Both having caused the early deaths of people then I expect some compensation for r their families...

So are you actively representing the relatives of those affected in some capacity, or whingeing from a safe distance?


...but hang on I thought you only wanted to talk about civilians?

Did you........what gave you that idea?

wishingwell
4th March 2016, 16:23
So 'The all in it together thing' shown to be worng again, one law for them and one for us.

As to what I am doing about it, well one thing is telling people that a section of people are getting away with law breaking and are being supported in this.

I have done many things to try and stop unfair stuff being imposed on us, trouble is they can brainwash the gullible into believing those laws/changes are fair and legal.

Joe 90
4th March 2016, 16:30
So 'The all in it together thing' shown to be worng again, one law for them and one for us.

It's an outrage, whatever it is.


As to what I am doing about it, well one thing is telling people that a section of people are getting away with law breaking and are being supported in this.

Couldn't they find that out by reading a newspaper? Or watching the news? Or are you the only person who knows the 'truth'?


I have done many things to try and stop unfair stuff being imposed on us...

Didn't work, did it?

Dordie
4th March 2016, 16:32
It's an outrage, whatever it is.



Couldn't they find that out by reading a newspaper? Or watching the news? Or are you the only person who knows the 'truth'?



Didn't work, did it?

s:12

Dordie
4th March 2016, 16:34
We owe muslims and immigrants in general, nothing.

wishingwell
5th March 2016, 11:03
It's an outrage, whatever it is.



Couldn't they find that out by reading a newspaper? Or watching the news? Or are you the only person who knows the 'truth'?



Didn't work, did it?


I don't think many of those types read the real news, and how do you know it hasn't worked? Could be a lot worse if people hadn't protested in some way.